ridemycamel: Another random poll

Saleem (

ridemycamel) wrote,
@ 2006-11-05 14:52:00

Another random poll
Poll #860611 Are Jews Considered White?
Open to: All, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 8

Are Jews Considered "White People"?

View Answers

Yes, it's not about ethnicity, it's about the colour of your skin
3 (37.5%)

No, they are semites
2 (25.0%)

Only if they support Israel
3 (37.5%)

(17 comments) - (Post a new comment)

	esizzle 2006-11-05 02:52 pm UTC (link)
	I consider them white because it's not about ethnicity, it's about being among the dominant class, does that make sense? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	ridemycamel 2006-11-05 03:59 pm UTC (link)
	WHY DONT U FUCKING VOTE. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	esizzle 2006-11-05 04:59 pm UTC (link)
	When you add your mama as an option, I'll vote. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	ridemycamel 2006-11-05 06:08 pm UTC (link)
	freedom hater. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	evaluna68 2006-11-05 05:19 pm UTC (link)
	What, I'm not allowed to be confused about my whiteness just like I am about everything else? :-) (Reply to this) (Thread)

	ridemycamel 2006-11-06 03:52 pm UTC (link)
	I figured it was a good question to ask, considering half of my friend's list are kosher: qallunaaq, sabotabby, haplilly, gigglez182, brownietime, and you, to name just a few off the top of my head. And those are just the ones that are out of the closet... (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

evaluna68
2006-11-07 02:31 am UTC (link)

Jewish,perhaps, but kosher...well, that's quite another matter.

And hey, I swear, being Jewish is being a member of one of those odd minorities that doesn't really "count" as a minority. I mean I'm not so terribly dark (not since I got to spend the whole summer on the beach when I was a kid, anyway). But it's not like my nominal cultural heritage is going to get me a scholarship, except maybe one to spend a summer on a kibbutz. No thanks.

On the other hand, I'm taken for a Latina at least as often as I'm taken for a Jew, even when I'm speaking English or haven't opened my mouth yet. Can I be an imputed non-white person? And to make things even more confusing, apparently I still have a trace of a Caucasian accent when I speak Russian (the actual Caucasians, as in from the Caucasus - it's an ex-boyfriend leftover). So I sound like a non-white Caucasian. Except he was actually pretty darn pale - someday I'll get a scanner and show you what I mean.

Let me have my mild identity crisis, dammit! If I can't have an identity crisis, I won't know who I am anymore!

(Reply to this) (Parent)

seilduksgata
2006-11-05 07:22 pm UTC (link)

Interesting poll!

As I see it, it IS about the colour of a persons skin, but I can't tick that box because box in question says 'yes'....so what about all the Jews with not-very-white skin? I mean, how dark does skin have to be to be non 'white'? For example, is a North African Jew with olive skin, black hair, etc, 'white' or something else?

As for the 'dominant class' idea - wouldn't this only apply to Jews in positions where they are/were dominant? And doesn't viewing 'the Jews' collectively in this way further increase the invisibility of Jews who don't fit this pattern?

(Reply to this) (Thread)

esizzle
2006-11-06 02:13 pm UTC (link)

"wouldn't this only apply to Jews in positions where they are/were dominant? And doesn't viewing 'the Jews' collectively in this way further increase the invisibility of Jews who don't fit this pattern?"

Yes and no :) I hope you don't mind if I take this opportunity to elaborate / test out my initial suggestion!

For example, the idea of White privelege does not only apply to rich people, but even someone born in a trailer who's parents are on welfare, they are still priveleged because they are White. On the other hand, it's not as if White people are.. let's say.. welcomed and received well in every country or by every person. Yet we still call them priveleged.

Something similar to that: Given that Israel is one of the most powerful countries of the world (military wise, as well as US-ally) and that every Jew has become priveleged by birth to become a citizen of Israel, I would say that all Jews are part of the dominant class. I would say this was different before 100 years ago, but I am only referring to the present day.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

seilduksgata
2006-11-06 03:53 pm UTC (link)

Thats interesting, thanks for clarifying your idea.

One issue I spotted with that idea is that it only seems to work if you're seeing the world as one 'dominant class' against all the others (well, this is Marxism, isnt it?) If you work within that framework then you only have to decide whether to place a given person within your dominant class group or outside it. So yes, all Jews technically have that right so, tick box! they go in the dominant group.

But what if you consider all the different factors in a persons life? If we compare a Palestinian settled in, say, America who is from an upper class background with good standing in his ethnic community in the States, a career and plenty of money, with a female Mizrahi factory worker in some development town in the south of Israel - this catogerisation seems to have limited usefulness in describing these circumstances in the real world.

Going back to the White privilege thing, I guess that yes, all White ppl have this particular form of privilege but in reality, in each situation people get into, there are lots of different factors that influence the outcome of the situation, and this is just one of them. The most relevant way of looking at this, for me, is to say that if a White person lived their life as a non White person, with all other factors staying the same, the life would be a harder by a certain degree.

So I guess that if I relate this to the Israel/Jews example above, the Jewish privilage we're talking about is actually a legal right to get to live in a developed country with US military backing for its wars. And obviously live in the strata of Israeli society that that Jew finds himself in...good for American Jews, say, but not very good for a lot of the others...

Maybe the question should be not so much 'are Jews in the group of privilage' but 'does Jewishness bring a kind of privilage'...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

esizzle
2006-11-06 09:36 pm UTC (link)

Well, the reason I think the colour of skin is not what we should look at is because no one has set what shades of white are white and what aren't. And no one has white skin anyway (except Albinos maybe?). What we usually deal with is the consequences of being White, whatever those are.

So maybe we should also add the question of what priveleges do Jews have only because they are Jewish and compare that to the priveleges of the White People, whoever they are.

If both are afforded the same priveleges (or non-priveleges) then I would call them White - in a "if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it is a duck" sort of way.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	heraclitus 2006-11-05 08:42 pm UTC (link)
	Ashkenazi Jews are usually considered "white". Sephards can go either way - either "brown" or "white" depending upon a variety of factors. (Reply to this)

	dontkickmybunny 2006-11-05 11:31 pm UTC (link)
	After running this question by a couple of people, we've come to the conclusion that none of us can locate Caucasia on a map and the colors white, brown, red, black and yellow have already been taken. With that established, I've decided that Jews are a nice knaki-tan. (Reply to this)

	ocicat_bengals 2006-11-06 01:45 am UTC (link)
	Sammy Davis was really too dark to be white. (Reply to this)

	Goodiok (Anonymous) 2007-09-18 04:19 am UTC (link)
	Hi all! Very interesting information! Thanks! G'night (Reply to this)

Are Jews considered white
(Anonymous)
2007-11-07 12:25 am UTC (link)

Most of the Jews I know do not necedssarily consider themselves white, but then not necessarily non-white either. A college friend who is Jewish atarted dating an Afro-American girl who was very anti-white, and their explanation of their relationship was that he was non-white, being of the levantine persuasion, however, I would argue that many Jews are white, ie of the Ashkenazi or Eastern European persuasion. The real question is wether being Jewish is a religion or an ethnicity....on which many Jews themselves are divided.

(Reply to this)

Are Jews considered white
(Anonymous)
2007-11-07 12:26 am UTC (link)

Most of the Jews I know do not necessarily consider themselves white, but then not necessarily non-white either. A college friend who is Jewish atarted dating an Afro-American girl who was very anti-white, and their explanation of their relationship was that he was non-white, being of the levantine persuasion, however, I would argue that many Jews are white, ie of the Ashkenazi or Eastern European persuasion. The real question is wether being Jewish is a religion or an ethnicity....on which many Jews themselves are divided.

(Reply to this)

(17 comments) - (Post a new comment)

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